By General William Ward (by telephone)
Daniel Volman, director of the African Security Research Project
Emira Woods, co-director of Foreign Policy in Focus, at the Institute for Policy Studies
Moderator: Mwamoyo Hamza, Voice of America
U.S. AFRICOM Public Affairs  Print     Share  

WASHINGTON, D.C. - General William Ward, commander, U.S. Africa Command, appears via telephone on the Voice of America's Straight Talk Africa on January 14, 2009. The guest host was Mwamoyo Hamza. (U.S. Africa Command photo)

The full 60-minute Straight Talk Africa program is available for viewing in the U.S. AFRICOM Multimedia Gallery

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Joining General William Ward as guests on Voice of America's "Straght Talk Africa" are, from left, Emira Woods, co-director of Foreign Policy in Focus, at the Institute for Policy Studies; and Daniel Volman, director of the African Security Research Project; as well as the show's guest host, Mwamoyo Hamza. Ward, commander of U.S. Africa Command, participated by telephone. (U.S. Africa Command photo)

STUTTGART, Germany - General William Ward, commander of U.S. Africa Command, conducts a media interview by telephone from his office in Stuttgart, Germany, in December 2008. (Photo by Vince Crawley, U.S. Africa Command)

WASHINGTON, D.C., 

Jan 18, 2009 — General William Ward, commander of U.S. Africa Command, addressed concerns about the U.S. military's role in Africa during an appearance January 14, 2009, on the Voice of America's live television show, "Straight Talk Africa."

Also appearing were two Washington, D.C,-based critics of the command, Daniel Volman, director of the African Security Research Project, and Emira Woods, co-director of Foreign Policy in Focus, at the Institute for Policy Studies.

Ward said that U.S. Africa Command is "best described as a bureaucratic restructuring." It was formally activated in October 2008 and does not represent a dramatic shift of U.S. policy in Africa. As time passes, Ward said, a growing number of skeptics will see that the U.S. military is not in charge of foreign policy or development in Africa, and concerns about Africa Command will continue to diminish.

Woods and Volman said they are concerned said that U.S. AFRICOM represents growing military control of U.S. foreign policy in Africa, which Ward said is "absolutely not the case."

U.S. Africa Command is seeks to build international partnerships "so we aren't doing things unilaterally," Ward said. "If I could be any more clear than that, I don't know how. It's not happening." Ward also said he was in full agreement with Woods and Volman that the main security role of the United States in Africa should be to help the African Union and its regional organizations develop their own security capability.

Asked if he is frustrated by lack of understanding of U.S. Africa Command's role, Ward responded, "It's not frustrating. I welcome the opportunity to try to clarify and dispel those things that are there. I can't go back and rewrite history. It is what it is. But as we move forward, the goal is to help the Africans create a continent that is stable so that the development that needs to occur that will benefit all of its peoples can occur. Our purpose is to assist the Africans and providing that secure environment that will then allow those things to occur. And we know that it's not done as an independent act. We know that it is done through a cooperative venture with the international community, with the nations of Africa and their organizations in ways that support their intent as well as -- and a point was made and I concur -- that are in keeping with our foreign policy objectives."


Following is the complete transcript:

"STRAIGHT TALK AFRICA" ON VOICE OF AMERICA

WELCOME AND MODERATOR:
MWAMOYO HAMZA,
GUEST HOST,
STRAIGHT TALK AFRICA
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 14, 2009


ANNOUNCER: From Washington, D.C., this is "Straight Talk Africa" of the Voice of America. Here's your host, Shaka Ssali.

MWAMOYO HAMZA: Hello and welcome to "Straight Talk Africa" which come to you right from the Voice of America studios here in Washington. It's 1830 (Greenwich time) -- Wednesday, January 14th. I'm Mwamoyo Hamza; Shaka Ssali is off today.

Today, we'll discuss military intervention in Africa, political and humanitarian crises as we take a closer look at the official launch of the U.S. Africa Command. They United States Africa Command, or AFRICOM, launched by President Bush in 2007, has now taken over all U.S. military operations in Africa. Since its creation, AFRICOM has been a topic of controversy. Some people welcome it while others see it as perhaps another set towards U.S. military dominance of the continent. Here is Magiam Ajelu (ph) sit down with Theresa Whelan, deputy assistant secretary of defense for African affairs to talk about AFRICOM.

(Begin audio segment.)
MAGIAM AJELU: When the United States announced the creation of AFRICOM, the new Africa Command, they said it would be different from others such as European, Pacific, and Central Command. Theresa Whelan is the deputy assistant secretary of State (sic) for African Affairs [CORRECTION - Whelan is Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for African Affairs].

THERESA WHELAN: It won't be focused on war-fighting, which the other commands -- their primary mission is war-fighting. That's what they were built for. This was built to help developed security capacity in Africa. We wanted to make sure that we, in the Defense Department, while we work on the security piece, that we have a good understanding of what other departments are doing on development, on rule of law, good governance, and those areas. And so in order to gain that understanding, we are going to have people from those departments with expertise work in the command with us.

MS. AJELU: Ambassador Steven Moll (ph), a State Department official, said at the meeting with European and African leaders, he was soon encountering a lot of misperceptions about AFRICOM. Secretary Whelan acknowledges concerns yet refuses their validity.

MS. WHELAN: We have no intention of using the Africa Command to try and control oil resources. We want to use the Africa Command, as I said, to help develop capacity so countries with oil resources willing to work with them to develop their security capacities so that they can ensure that their oil-producing regions are not threatened by insurgency or banditry or criminality. Another is that we are doing this in response to China and that is actually not true either. There is no particular reason why Chinese interests and U.S. interest in Africa have to clash.

MS. AJELU: Other skeptics say that they are afraid of a military takeover from the United States.

MS. WHELAN: The United States has actually been drawing resources -- our military resources back to the U.S. for a number of years. We have significantly reduced the number of U.S. forces based overseas and in Europe and in Asia and that's continuing. We have absolutely no intention of reversing that and putting U.S. troops in Africa.

MS. AJELU: The command is, at the moment based in Germany with a plan to eventually to move its headquarters somewhere in Africa. Leaders like Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf of Liberia, have already volunteered her country.

PRESIDENT ELLEN JOHNSON-SIRLEAF: Liberia feels that this has some advantages, that it's good for the continent and Liberia is a willing nation to receive it.

MS. AJELU: Others are not so forthcoming. For now, no specific country has been selected. Instead of one giant headquarters, Secretary Whelan says it will be several branches in different parts of Africa. Magiam Ajelu, VOA News.

(End audio segment.)

MR. HAMZA: Thank you, Magiam. Joining us on the phone from Stuttgart, Germany, distinguished guest, U.S. Army General William. E. Kip Ward, commander of the U.S. Africa Command. We'll be joined later in the program by Daniel Volman, director of the African Security Research Project and also Emira Woods, co-director of Foreign Policy in Focus, at the Institute for Policy Studies. Welcome, General Ward.

GENERAL WILLIAM E. WARD: Well, thank you, Hamza, and to the other guests this evening, hello to you as well. Thank you very much.

MR. HAMZA: Yeah, thank you, General, for joining us. It's been more than a year since we last spoke in this program and maybe we should begin by refreshing the minds of our viewers. What exactly is AFRICOM?

GEN. WARD: Well, thanks for the opportunity to come back and address your listening audience. I think it's something that I welcome the opportunity to do, and to provide an update is another welcome opportunity for me. As we talked over a year ago, Hamza, the creation of United States Africa Command signaled the decision by the Department of Defense to restructure the way we do our military-to-military activities on the continent of Africa. And as we talked then, as opposed to having these activities under the purview of three different geographic commands, neither of them focused on the work of our security assistance efforts in Africa in a consistent way, to reorganize ourselves and create a single command, which is United States Africa Command, that would in fact bring all of the United States Department of Defense programs under one roof, under a headquarters that, as I said, devotes its day-to-day activities on supporting the work of our African partners and friends and helping them to increase their capacity to provide for their own security.

MR. HAMZA: So it's some kind of consolidation of U.S. military operations and relations with Africa but what exactly is this consolidation hoping to achieve in Africa?

GEN. WARD: Well, I wouldn't call it a consolidation of activities. I would call it a work to -- the staff activities that go into the planning, as opposed to having that occur in a less cohesive way because it's being done by three separate headquarters. Now, that activity is focused under a single headquarters. That enables a more cohesive approach to what we do. It enables a look at the continent, quite candidly, to reflect how African's look at the continent. And that is through a single point of reference, as opposed to multiple points of reference. It also recognizes the continued evolution of the African organizations -- the continental organizations, the African Union as well as the regional organizations.

So it provides a single point of contact for the work of the Department of Defense and it provides for our partners a very focused organization that they can turn to that will be consistent, over time, that will be devoted to paying attention, listening to our African friends so messages would not have to be repeated two or three times or more than that, misinterpreted by different headquarters, where we become more knowledgeable of what our friends ask us to do and we can be more committed to this effort because we have the continent of Africa as our sole activity, as opposed to having Africa being looked at as a -- as an additional effort -- as the previous construct would have it to be.

So I think it's best described as a bureaucratic restructuring -- a reorganization as opposed to an reflection of different programs and different activities. As I said before, it's not so much what we're doing will change. It's how we are organized -- organizing ourselves to do that in order to have better planned, better executed programs, which in turn, I think, provides a better product for our partners.

MR. HAMZA: General, I do know the command has been met with opposition from the beginning. And one of them -- most contentious part of it was the headquarters of the command. And I understand the U.S. has decided now that the command is in -- back in Stuttgart, Germany. Are there any more efforts right now to relocate the command onto African soil?

GEN. WARD: That's a great question. I think, as I've probably mentioned to you last year, that the command had no intention of beginning its activities there. As I think I mentioned to you, you know, I have never personally asked any nation other than Germany to host the command. That remains the case. We have not moved forward to do any of that, and so the comment that we are still seeking to the put the headquarters on the continent of Africa is not a valid comment. We are now focused on standing up the command, where we are is a suitable location for the time being. If some point in time down the road, five, 10 years, whatever the case may be, other decisions are made, that will be done only as a result of very complete consultations with, obviously, the United States government, but any particular government, wherever it might be, Africa or elsewhere for that matter. But at this point in time, no, there has been no additional work in that regard.

MR. HAMZA: And there no ongoing talks right now regarding the headquarters in Africa?

GEN. WARD: That is correct. There are no ongoing talks right now for putting the headquarters anywhere at this time -- currently located.

MR. HAMZA: As I recall, and as we have in the piece before, President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf has offered to host AFRICOM. Will the U.S. take up that offer?

GEN. WARD: Well, it was a matter of, again -- there have not been any plans to do that. And so we weren't in a position to either ask anyone nor to accept an offer from anyone and that condition remains. The priority now is to establish the headquarters, bring our people together to look at the programs that we are already conducting and begin the work of ensuring our partners that those programs that are already ongoing can be executed, conducted in the most effective way possible and quite candidly, as your listeners know, the continent of Africa is such a large continent. Wherever the headquarters is, the work of the command is not there. It's where the programs are being carried out.

MR. HAMZA: And general, if you could tell us, you have built up the command set an extent right now. I think it's fully operational. What exactly is the command doing in Africa?

GEN. WARD: Well, the command is engaged on a day-to-day basis in military-to-military programs throughout the continent. As an example, if you would take just today as a case in point, we're in the west of Africa working with a group of African nations who have come together to try to improve their communications interoperability. So we are hosting a planning conference. It includes 25 nations from the continent as they work together, trying to determine better ways to communicate with one another, to participate as members of regional activities insofar as enhancing their communications.

In addition to that, you might note that as the United Nations and the African nations continue to bring stability to the Darfur region as peacekeepers are being moved into Sudan. My command is involved today in providing logistic support for moving African peacekeepers into Sudan and some of their large equipment, which is going on today.

MR. HAMZA: General, are there any specific military operations that the command is engaged in, in Africa at the moment?

GEN. WARD: The command is not involved in any military operations in the -- I would guess the way that you are intended -- we are involved in military-to-military training. We conducted an exercise in November in the North Africa region with nine North African nations are participating in an exercise as they were attempting to increase their ability to provide security in their territories. But you're probably asking do we have U.S. troops operating on the continent of Africa and conducting exercises? The answer is no.

MR. HAMZA: Thank you, General. Let's pause for a short break. When we come back, we continue with a discussion on the role of the U.S. Africa Command on the continent of Africa. Don't go away.

(Music.)

ANNOUNCER: U.S. Africa Command was established in October, 2007 and operated under U.S. European Command during its first year. October 1st, 2008 marked U.S. Africa Command's transition to independent unified command status. It is now focused on synchronizing hundreds activities inherited from three regional commands that previously coordinated U.S. military relations in Africa.

(Commercial break.)

ANNOUNCER: This is "Straight Talk Africa" on the Voice of America. What's your opinion about today's topic? Call us. 2-0-2-6-1-9-3-1-1-1. U.S. country code, 1. When you call, remember the following: ask only one question, keep it very brief, turn down the volume of your radio or television set. Now, let's go back to "Straight Talk Africa."

MR. HAMZA: Before the break, we were talking with U.S. Army General William E. Kip Ward, commander of the U.S. Africa Command. General Ward is on the phone from Stuttgart, Germany. Joining us now in studio is Daniel Volman, the director of the African Security Research Project and Emira Woods, co-director of Foreign Policy in Focus at the Institute for Policy Studies. Welcome, you all. But before I bring it back here at the studio, let me ask our General Ward one more question. General Ward, are you there?

GEN. WARD: Yes, I'm here.

MR. HAMZA: Yes, you know, as you know, General, as we talked before, there has been a lot of resistance and confusion and misconceptions with this whole command as soon as the idea was announced, and there are some who are describing the command as an expression of U.S. military expansion in Africa and some are even it's a modern-day 21st century scramble for Africa. How do you respond to those kind of challenges?

GEN. WARD: Thank, Hamza. First, you know, the comments of a year ago, I think, are less valid today. One of the things we've done over this past year, as was pointed out as we stood the command was in fact to travel the continent as well as other places, explaining what the command is and what it is not. And so we have, I think, cleared up many of those misperceptions through our dialogue, as well as by being very visible in what we're doing and quite candidly, what we're not doing. So the things that were talked about such as militarizing the continent and militarizing foreign policy -- they just haven't happened and that has been, I think, the greatest disprover of some of those perceptions. And because of that, the acceptance of the command is increasing and increasing.

I've traveled to the African Union and there, the support from its membership is certainly very, very high. I've traveled around the continent meeting with the nations bilaterally, and that support is also high. So I think what has occurred has been not so much the fact that the perceptions that were out there have been proven, but more importantly, what those things that were based on -- that the criticism was based on, have just been demonstrated to not true, not valid, and none of what was talked about as the reason for the command having been stood up are proving themselves to be true.

MR. HAMZA: Emira, let me come to you. Is AFRICOM a good idea for Africa?

EMIRA WOODS: It is absolutely a disaster for Africa. What AFRICOM represents is in fact militarizing U.S. engagement with Africa. Even if you listen to this General Ward, with all due respect, you have to understand that U.S. has a history, first, of launching proxy wars in Africa. What AFRICOM represents is the U.S. arming, equipping, training militaries on the African continent. And clearly, you have an example. General Ward mentioned the Horn of Africa. That's the best example, currently example today where the U.S. armed, equipped, trained the Ethiopian forces to then launch a proxy war in Somalia. The U.S. augmented that with air strikes directly on Somali civilians, so if you look at current day examples, you have throughout the continent from East to West, you know?

Probably on the west, Mauritania is the best example where the army trained and equipped by this U.S. military, launched a coup against their own people. Still in power today, the military regime in Mauritania. But if you see both the historical role that the U.S. has played, the current role of the U.S. military, what you recognize that AFRICOM was really a new creation from Donald Rumsfeld, who was the defense minister under George Bush, but he put in place a structure to focus U.S. attention on militarizing the African continent at a time, really, when Africa has a critical economic crisis, when there is a dire food crisis going on globally, but especially on the African continent, when people around the continent are desperate for jobs. What the continent needs least is more weapons. What the continent needs least is more training of militaries that will then unleash their oppression against civilians.

MR. HAMZA: Daniel, I know that you are also a critic of the command. What's your view? How far do you take your criticism?

DANIEL VOLMAN: I have two main concerns. One of them is just to follow up on what Emira was just saying, is the increasing dominance of military in U.S. relations with Africa. And this is a concern within the military itself that Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen made in a very important speech just a couple of days ago, in which he expressed concern about the overreliance on the military as an instrument of U.S. policy towards Africa and the need to balance that with much greater emphasis on diplomacy, development, and trade.

And my other major concern about AFRICOM is -- just to follow up on something General Ward said earlier-- is that while the United States would very much want to avoid the use of American military intervention in African in pursuit of its own interest, it has chosen to rely on military instruments of security assistance, training, and equipment of what are very repressive and undemocratic regimes in Africa, particularly in key oil-producing countries like Nigeria and Angola as a way of guaranteeing continued access, by not just the United States, but other countries to Africa's resources.

MR. HAMZA: But Daniel, reading your writings, your past writings. You have written extensively on this, and it looks like were supporting this idea in the beginning.

MR. VOLMAN: I've always been a very strong critic of the reliance by the United States on military instruments to defend its interests in Africa and an exponent of the need for a much more balanced approach to Africa.

MR. HAMZA: Let me welcome our viewers that if you want to call us, you can call us and -- (inaudible) -- question and the number to call is 2-0-2-6-1-9-3-1-1-1 and the U.S. country code is 1.

Emira, let me come back to you. There are other commands -- U.S. commands, you know there are commands for Latin America, Europe, Asia. Why aren't these looked at as military intervention -- why should the Africa Command be viewed today as a military intervention? Why not the others?

MS. WOODS: Well, first, the Africa Command is a new creation, again, from the Bush administration under Rumsfeld. And what was interesting is not only the reorganization, as General Ward put it, but it's also the overreach of the Department of Defense in this reorganization. So what happened with AFRICOM that was quite different from the other commands is that Africa -- the Department of Defense under the Africa Command would coordinate -- would take on the responsibility, would organize development, the building of schools, the building of wells, the building roads, right?

There would be the coordination of these traditional development programs under, orchestrated by but somehow coordinated by the Department of Defense. There would be this overreach so both development, humanitarian assistance, and potentially even diplomacy -- all the key tools in the foreign policy toolkit would be under the leadership -- under the control and direction, but definitely with the authorization of this Africa Command. Defense leading the way; is what distinguished the Africa Command from many of the others.

And you see, again, this idea that emerged out of Iraq from Donald Rumsfeld was a failure in Iraq, you know, and then transplanted to Africa and now being held up as a model, potentially, for the Southern Command and for other commands in the U.S. Department of Defense. So what we're saying is that it is -- it's a flawed model -- it didn't work in Iraq. It will not work in Africa, that Africa needs development, needs jobs, schools, housing, hospitals, right, those core building blocks of healthy, stable societies, not more weapons, not stronger militaries.

MR. HAMZA: General Ward?

GEN. WARD: Hello.

MR. HAMZA: Is that what you're doing -- what Emira is stating -- is that what you're doing in Africa? You are taking the lead of U.S. foreign policy in Africa?

GEN. WARD: Well, the plain answer is absolutely not. And I would welcome an opportunity to provide some additional detail, but what we are actually not doing is taking over the role of our agency departments. U.S. Agency for International Development remains the U.S. government's lead for development on the continent of Africa. U.S. Africa Command is absolutely not the need in coordinating, in orchestrating, in controlling any of those developmental projects.

MR. HAMZA: As you hear what the general says, could it be, Daniel, could it be that there are still some misconceptions? Because what the Africa Command is saying it is doing and what critics are saying are quite different things.

MR. VOLMAN: I think it's not a matter of misunderstanding. I think the reason there's been so much hostility towards AFRICOM, particularly within the African continent itself, is that people correctly perceive AFRICOM for exactly what it is. And I'm not saying this is exclusively a problem for the United States, because there's also growing hostility and resistance in Africa to the military involvement of Russia, India, China, other countries in Africa, which is why many critics like myself do use term scramble for Africa about what's going on.

MR. HAMZA: Hostility is in Africa. The last time I check, there are several African nations which are in military cooperation with the U.S., and the U.S. has a long history of military cooperation with Africa and you know, they are talking, they are doing military exercises. There are several operations right now with military cooperation between the U.S. and African nations and regional organizations. How can you say that there hostilities in Africa?

MR. VOLMAN: You are absolutely right. The hostility I'm referring to is the hostility of the African people, the public in Africa. You're absolutely correct that many governments, because as I've mentioned before -- these are often very repressive, undemocratic governments are very happy to cooperate with the United States and what they see as mutually beneficial military relationships. But the people in those countries understand what their governments are doing to them. And they are hostile to the involvement of the United States in supporting those governments and the kinds of violent, repressive activities that those governments are engaged in. For example, in the Niger Delta of Nigeria, but also everywhere in the continent.

MR. HAMZA: Emira.

MS. WOODS: Well, I wanted to first go back because you talk about the misconceptions. The misconceptions are being perpetrated, really, by the Department of Defense. So here, you have General Ward saying there's no coordination, there's no, in any way, you know, getting involved in the development program. Yet, you had, in your opening segment, Theresa Whelan saying in fact, that what the AFRICOM -- what the Africa Command would do would be coordinating these other functions, to streamline, you know. You use different terminology but clearly, the effect is you get in a room a general or other military officer, development officer, the diplomacy officials. You get them in a room, you will have the Department of Defense taking leadership in setting U.S. policy in a way that they never have in the past in African policy, right? So you have a leadership change that is underway because of this new creation, this Africa Command. And that is, in fact, create a scenario where military objectives could well preempt other foreign policy objectives of the United States, and could leave Africa in even more precarious situation than it's already in.

MR. HAMZA: Let me take a call from Uganda. James from Uganda, you are a on "Straight Talk Africa."

Q: Thank you, Mwamoyo. How are you?

MR. HAMZA: I'm doing just fine. How are you?

Q: I'm fine. The question is to Emira Woods, the lady who is seated next to you. What is to be the composition of the Africa of the United States high command. Are the African states -- will they be represented equally? Because when the military intervention comes, some of the intervention, some of the intervention comes on the side of leaders who do not want to leave power. So who are they? What is the composition? Who is there leading the high command of the Africa of the United States military command? Thank you very much.

MS. WOODS: I mean, I think that's an excellent question. I would love to hear General Ward's response to that.

MR. HAMZA: Yeah, General Ward, you want to answer the question please?

GEN. WARD: I think if I understood the caller, the question was the -- who is leading the command. Ã?

MR. HAMZA: General, sorry, could you hold that thought? Let's go to a break and then we come back. You're tuned to "Straight Talk Africa." Today's topic, if you wish to participate in our discussion, please call us at 2-0-2-6-1-9-3-1-1-1 at the U.S. country code 1. We'll continue with a discussion in a moment.

(Music.)

ANNOUNCER: U.S. Africa Command will be designed to better enable the Department of Defense and other elements of the U.S. government to work in concert with partners to achieve a more stable environment in which political and economic growth can take place and humanitarian development assistance can be used more effectively.

The 2009 VOA calendar is here. This year, VOA is introducing you to some of our on-air personalities. Here's your chance to meet the international broadcasters who bring you the news each day and their personal stories of how they escaped conflict and sometimes oppressive situations and how they made their way to the United States. Send an e-mail to africatv@voanews.com to get your free copy while supplies last.

NEW AN NOUNCER: This is "Straight Talk Africa" on the Voice of America. Call us now with your questions and comments. The number is 2-0-2-6-1-9-3-1-1-1 and the U.S. country code is 1. Call us collect and we'll pay for the call, or call direct and we will call you right back. Remember, keep0 your questions brief. Now back to "Straight Talk Africa."

MR. HAMZA: Hello, I'm Mwamoyo Hamza and welcome back to "Straight Talk Africa," coming to you live from Washington, D.C. If you've just joined us, today's topic is military domination in Africa's political and humanitarian crises. Our distinguished guests are U.S. Army General William E. "Kip" Ward, commander of the U.S. Africa Command on the phone from Stuttgart. And here in Studio 51 is Daniel Volman with the African Security Research Project and Emira Woods from Institute for Policy Studies. Now, General Ward, can you hear me?

GEN. WARD: Yes, I can hear you.

MR. HAMZA: Yeah, let's go back to the caller from Uganda. He was basically asking about the composition of the command and what African nations are cooperating with you in terms of building up the command.

GEN. WARD: Right. First, the command -- I think the context your caller used was a high command that presupposes formations, troops, et cetera. First, this is a staff headquarters, not a command with formations of troops, soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines. That does not exist as a part of the headquarters construct. This is a staff headquarters. What we are doing at the command stands up is a program through which we would invite various countries who have representatives within the staff. That is an ongoing process, not fully matured because we have continued to build, as we said, there. And so that's the essential status.

I would like to address a point that Ms. Woods made, though and it has to do with this notion of coordinating. The point that Ms. Whelan made versus my point. In fact, the coordination does occur. The point that I was making is that we are not a leader of that effort. In fact, it's being said by many, that some of our programs, in fact, are being conducted or at least led because of what our AID -- our Department of State does. We do nothing in a country that is not fully synchronized, led, supported by, and complementary to our chiefs of missions in the country, the U.S. ambassadors. All of our activities and programs are done in support of foreign policy and not the other way around. So yes there is coordination, but coordination precisely to ensure that what we are doing is in fact in line with foreign policy, not as the leader of our foreign policy.

MR. HAMZA: That has always been an area of fuzzy viewing, if I may say because even U.S. officials have expressed some concerns about that. Russ Feingold, senator from -- Democrat from Wisconsin -- he expressed some -- expressed some concerns about that -- and let me quote, he said -- this is last year. He says AFRICOM must demonstrate that it recognizes the unique political realities toward Africa, concentrate on a defined mandate, and take the lead from diplomats. So obviously, there is a hint in his statement that AFRICOM might, you know, go gung-ho and implement its own agendas.

GEN. WARD: I think that if you were to ask Senator Feingold -- and I certainly wouldn't speak for the senator. That question today -- the history of this past year has proven the exact opposite of that because what, in effect, we have done and how we have conducted ourselves, taking the lead from our foreign policy makers and not setting policy ourselves.

I think some of this is a result of what has gone on in Iraq and Afghanistan. We fully recognize that the continent of Africa and its island nations is not Iraq and Afghanistan. So therefore we don't do our work in that model. So I think were you to speak many of these persons today, those who have visited the continent and those in our embassies, our USAID personnel as we are able to work with them more and more and demonstrate to them that we are in fact supporting policy and not leading policy, that sentiment would be reflected different than it was being reflected this time last year.

MR. HAMZA: Let me take another call. Tilda from New York City. Tilda, you're on "Straight Talk Africa."

Q: Good afternoon, gentlemen.

MR. HAMZA: Good afternoon.

Q: Yes, I'm really surprised by what the general said that the United States AFRICOM is nothing -- it is just an extension of the Defense Department. They are involving in internal affairs of Africa and they are supporting dictatorships like the Ethiopian dictator, whose involvement in Somalia's internal war and killed innocent women and children. Is this what Africa needs now? Africa is now in deep, internal crisis, economic and food crisis. What least we want is an army supporting and sending ammunition to kill our children. AFRICOM is not welcome in East Africa. I can guarantee you that. My fathers, my grandfathers died for that country, fighting foreigners. We don't accept any foreign armies in the name of AFRICOM or whatever. Because, my friend, this is a wrong, wrong, wrong procedure. We don't want -- at this time, protestors are protesting in front of the State Defense Department at 10-degree Fahrenheit temperatures to denounce the present Bush regime for supporting civilian in the name of democracy, killing our children. We don't need AFRICOM in Africa.

MR. HAMZA: I get you, Tilda. Thank you, thank you very much. I get you. David and Emira. This is not an imposition by the U.S. on African nations. African nations, you know, leaders -- they are working with the U.S. on the Africa Command. So, don't they know?

MR. VOLMAN: That is the point, it's important to make the distinction that I made before between the governments in these countries which are often, as I've repeatedly said, not democratically elected, not responsible to their people, and the people themselves. To give another example, after the most recent elections in Nigeria, which everyone agrees were a complete fraud, completely unfair, completely unfree. The United States sent a very high level representative to Nigeria, and he didn't talk about the need for democracy for Nigeria. He talked about the interest of the United States in cooperating with the government of Nigeria to attack its own people in the Niger Delta.

MR. HAMZA: Emira?

MS. WOODS: Clearly, this is the 21st century. Africa needs to look within. You have had since 1960, Kwame Nkrumah put it out that what Africa needs is an Africa high command. And you have now, the African Union, in 2008, put out the need for greater continental governance, including on issues of peace and security. My first question to the general would be why is it that the U.S. would insert itself as African countries are coming together to determine how to communicate better with each other within a region like West Africa? Why would those governments want? Right. So we need Ã?

(Crosstalk)

MR. HAMZA: But African countries are welcoming this.


MS. WOODS: What we need for Africa -- and again, we have to put it out there -- the 21st century, Africa needs its own command that is looking at peace and security in a holistic way, that works both on issues of peacekeeping and peacemaking, but also on issues of peace negotiations and getting at the root causes of crises on the continent. What Africa needs is to create these mechanisms, that -- We know the African Union is relatively new, but everyone talks about all the failures of Darfur. Clearly, there are issues. Without the proper financing, without the proper equipment. It will take time to build these mechanisms. But we need to start. We need to start looking at Africa's priorities. First, food, jobs, housing, core building blocks of healthy societies. And we have to look at issues of peace and security from a holistic way of what meets the current and long-term interests and needs of the continent and its people.

MR. HAMZA: There are those who will tell you peace and security is the paramount issue. That that's the first need to be able to achieve all of those other things you are talking about. I remember -- what is wrong with having AFRICOM rapid response force? I remember traveling with then U.S. Secretary of State Warren Christopher to Africa in 1996, I think. And he was trying to sell this idea of a rapid response force, which would move in quickly to a certain country and put down, say, a conflict or a rebellion. What is wrong with that?

MS. WOODS: Well, I'm from Liberia. That's probably one of the best examples of how a regional rapid response plus a United Nations long-term response to protracted crises. We have to build the regional, but we also have to recognize that there is an international responsibility, international allies through the United Nations, right? So it's a global effort at addressing long-term crises, but a regional effort at immediate response. The first responders. That is a solution that can work, not only for the case of Liberia but many cases around the continent. But it has to go hand-in-hand with negotiations that get at the root causes of the crises that bring the citizens of the country up to the table to participate in bringing about solutions to those long-term protracted crises.

MR VOLMAN: And the United States has to begin to move away from this unilateral American military activity in Africa and begin to move to reach out to the international community as President Obama -- President-elect Obama has spoken so eloquently about the need to cooperate with other countries with interests in Africa to build the capability of the United Nations, as flawed an instrument as the United Nations is, to learn to work with other countries around the world and with other governments in Africa and popular organizations in Africa, not to simply pursue its own unilateral military and economic interest.

GEN. WARD: You know, Hamza, I, you know, appreciate both of those comments because that's exactly what this command is doing. I think if there is a perception and a thought that we are doing things unilaterally, again, that is absolutely not the case. Our stated objective is to work with international partners, those who are there, so we aren't doing things unilaterally. That is absolutely not happening. And Mr. Volman, if I could be any more clear than that, I don't know how. It's not happening.

To the point that Ms. Woods made, working with the African Union, the peace and security commission that we fully recognize the linkages between peace and security, development. And we are working with the African Union not to do their work for them but we are asked -- and I want to emphasize that -- where we are asked to provide the type of support that they would desire to increase their capacity to in fact do the things that you've talked about, the Standby organizations [of the African Standby Force], working with the Standby [regional] communities to help stand up their forces. Again, not that we are leading that work, not that we are dictating or directing, but where we're asked to assist in providing capacity and capability. That's what we are doing.

So I think the points that you have made here are clearly the point that we always agree to -- not doing it unilaterally, working in a cooperative and collaborative way with other international nations, the nations of the continent, as well as their organizations. And again, not doing unilateral activities, but doing activities that support those legitimate governments. And I would say that you know, those governments that we work with aren't decisions that Kip Ward makes. Those are decisions that reflect our foreign policy based on our stated foreign policy objectives and where our national foreign policy-makers have determined those relations would exist.

MS. WOODS: But clearly, we're in a context where now, 24 percent of the oil that comes to the United States comes from the African continent. Africa, as Professor Volman's research shows, Africa has now outstripped the Middle East in providing oil to the United States. And we know clearly, where there's oil, there's military interest. So it's so -- you cannot look at this as sort of a textbook -- (chuckles) -- analysis -- of yes, the U.S. will -- the U.S. foreign policy will be determined by the State Department and the U.S. will work with other countries in a multilateral way. Clearly, there are interests. It is oil. It is Uranium. It is coltan for cell phones. It is a list of resources that are vital to the functioning of the U.S. economy that come from Africa. So in that context --

MR. HAMZA: How about security and stability in Africa? We'll come back to that. You are tuned in to "Straight Talk Africa." In a moment we'll return to you for your comments and questions. And the number to call is 2-0-2-6-1-9-3-1-1-1 and the U.S. country code is 1. Remember to keep our operator your country code and city code if you want us to call you back. Please don't go away.

(Music.)

ANNOUNCER: People around the world are looking forward to the inauguration of Barack Obama on January 20th as president of the United States. Many hope he will bring change to a world they believe is in crisis. For others, Mr. Obama's ancestral roots in Africa means even more. When he takes office, he'll face enormous problems and challenges. But will those challenges deflect much needed attention from sub-Saharan Africa? Therefore, this week's question of the week is: Will Africa be a top priority for U.S. President Barack Obama -- yes or no? Send us an e-mail at africatv@voanews.com.

(Commercial break.)

ANNOUNCER: Did you like today's show? Write and tell us what you think or give us some suggestions. And tell us on what station you're tuned into. Here's our address: "Straight Talk Africa" Voice of America, 330 Independence Avenue, SW, Washington, D.C. 20237, U.S.A. Or send us an e-mail at africatv@voanews.com. Log on to our Web site -- www.voanews.com/tvtoafrica.

(Music.)

NEW ANNOUNCER: Letter of the week. Jane Bobonara (ph) from Uganda writes, it's almost a week away from the swearing of Barack Obama as the president of the United States. Although Obama has his roots in Africa, particularly Kenya and East Africa, we the indigenous Africans have to give him time to defend his economic, social, and political policies while knowing that he has to serve the U.S. interest first and others will follow suit. Therefore, this serves as a warning to all those that are fanning conflicts and wars in sub-Saharan Africa, especially in the Great Lakes region. Time is running out for them to change their attitude towards the opposition and all peace-loving democrats in Africa. We, as Africans, should give Barack Obama the chance to prove himself. Long live America, long live Africa. May God the omnipresent, bless Barack Obama and Africa.

MR. HAMZA: Thank you David. Welcome back to "Straight Talk Africa" on the Voice of America. Just a reminder that we would like to hear from you, so drop us a line at africatv@voanews.com and maybe your letter can be read on air as the letter of the week. The address, again, is africatv@voanews.com.

General Ward, I understand that in the hierarchy of the command -- can you explain to us -- how does that factor in -- how does that work?

GEN. WARD: I'm sorry, Hamza. You said in the command, how does what work?

MR. HAMZA: You as a civilian deputy.

GEN. WARD: Yes. Okay, within the command, the structure is such that in order to assure what we do is in fact aligned, synchronized, and supports the work of others, the U.S. deputy for civil-military activities, is from the Department of State. And at the current time, the ambassador helps us understand the work of others so that our activities and programs are, in fact, supportive of and not contradictory to and fit in where the other programs exist as they pertain to any humanitarian activities that we do, which I might add, only a miniscule portion of our activities and by no means encompass a preponderance of what we do.

And in addition to that position, there are other positions within the command -- within the staff -- from other members of our interagency. And again, not that those persons are there so that we can then direct or do the work of those agencies, but to help us better understand that work and quite candidly, better posture us to ensure that what we do, in fact, supports those efforts as opposed to not -- to enhance our understanding of what's being done in the very important areas that your guests have mentioned, that we also agree are the important things for the continent, both developmental arenas. So again, not that we are directing or in the lead of or in charge of, but so that we gain greater clarity and understanding so that those things that we are in fact doing, can be better supportive of the greater governmental endeavors.

MR. HAMZA: Emira, does that cut down your blood pressure that you know --

MS. WOODS: Absolutely not.

(Cross talk.)

MR. HAMZA: -- That his really could work.

MS. WOODS: What you hear is that the general is the governor -- he's the one on top. He is the key decision-maker.

GEN. WARD: That is not the case.

MS. WOODS: Right?

GEN. WARD: Absolutely not.

(Crosstalk)

MS. WOODS: (Inaudible) deputies, but they are bringing in development, diplomacy. So you still wonder, what role does an ambassador play at a country level? The ambassadors have -- in many instances, have raised these questions as they are being appointed now to these roles. Well, what role does the ambassador play if you have this consortium led by a four-star general? And many know, here in the U.S. especially, there's a reverence that goes to military people because of their role historically here in the U.S. So a general in the room ends up setting the tone, taking the leadership, with, now, his deputy from development, from humanitarian assistance-type functions, helping to coordinate, helping to oversee, helping to orchestrate, or in the general's words, support those types of functions.

So it's the interagency role that is represented by the Africa Command. It is the overreach of the Department of Defense into the other traditional State Department function that is of concern now and into the future. And remember, this is just beginning. All of the general's comments about the initial phase is in Stuttgart, Germany. There are no decisions yet made for future phases. It may in Africa, it may be elsewhere. But all we see now is an initial phase with an initial -- very small staffing structure in place. This will well grow, as has been the case in many other commands around the world -- starts off small, grows over time and becomes an animal that really none can contend with.

MR. HAMZA: General, certainly you don't think of yourself as overreaching in your activities?

GEN. WARD: No, I don't. But I see I can't change Ms. Woods' mind there. (Chuckles.)

MR. HAMZA: (Chuckles.)

GEN. WARD: I think if she were to talk to the ambassadors, they would tell her that Ward fully recognizes that nothing is done in their countries without their approval. They have veto approval. We don't sit down in a room and Ward does not dictate the scenario. But obviously, Mrs. Woods -- Ms. Woods -- whatever I say wouldn't change that. But I assure her as well as your audience that that scenario as she described is not the case.

MS. WOOD: Well, he has to Ã?

(Crosstalk)

MR. HAMZA: That's a good point. Let me bring in Daniel here. The general brings up an important point. As I said before, this is not an imposition, you know. The Africans are you know, are part of this thing. They sit down together, they negotiate this, they draw the lines.

MR. VOLMAN: But which Africans? A very small elite which rules by repression and violence or the people themselves? The people themselves are not crying out for American military assistance. They see what the American military's already doing in Africa. General Ward didn't --

MR. HAMZA: I'll bet you --

(Crosstalk)

MR. VOLMAN: (Inaudible) -- the attacks in Somalia, the U.S. providing -- using surveillance aircraft over the Sahara to provide intelligence information to repressive governments like that in Algeria for military activities, growing involvement in Chad, in Nigeria, in Niger, in Mali, where American troops actually carried supplies to a besieged Malian government garrison, came under fire from Taureg rebels. None of them were killed, fortunately. The plane was able to safely get back to its base. The Americans are already killing people in Africa and have come very close to being killed themselves in Africa.

MR. HAMZA: Okay, but talking about the people -- I'm willing to bet that a woman in the DRC, Eastern DRC, who's suffering, you know, repeated rapes from those rebel soldiers and government soldiers, wouldn't really mind today to have an intervention force -- and this is not what the command is doing but you know --

MS. WOODS: That's the best example though, because what has happened? The U.S. has given those arms, has given the training to the Rwandan army, which then goes across the border to the DRC. That's the best example of you know, how the U.S. plays a role -- plays a proxy behind the scenes role both in being the number one arms exporter in the world and providing training, support, and assistance to facilitate the murderous and irresponsible deeds of armies, you know, like even in the case that you've raised here, the best example -- Rwanda.

MR. HAMZA: Let me -- I'll call it -- let me take some calls. Patrick from Uganda. Patrick, you are on "Straight Talk Africa."

Q: Good evening.

MR. HAMZA: Good evening, sir.

Q: My name is Arama (sp?) Patrick. I'm calling from Northern Uganda. I would like to support the creation of the U.S. African military because military command -- because what our African leaders have put their people through calls for such international intervention. Africa -- (inaudible) -- change of the policy of U.S.foreign policy of engaging with rogue African leaders to now fighting for the cause of the people within Africa. (Inaudible.)

MR. HAMZA: Thank you, Patrick. We don't have much time.

Q: Wait -- (Inaudible)

MR. HAMZA: Patrick, we don't have much time. Thank you.

General, let me ask you this -- and perhaps that will be the last question. Do you find this frustrating knowing that in your gut feeling, in your senses really, that you are convinced that this is a good thing, yet you are met with all this resistance and misconceptions and opposition? Is this frustrating for you?

GEN. WARD: No, Hamza. It's not frustrating. I welcome the opportunity to try to clarify and dispel those things that are there. I can't go back and rewrite history. It is what it is. But as we move forward, the goal is to help the Africans create a continent that is stable so that the development that needs to occur that will benefit all of its peoples can occur. Our purpose is to assist the Africans and providing that secure environment that will then allow those things to occur. And we know that it's not done as an independent act. We know that it is done through a cooperative venture with the international community, with the nations of Africa and their organizations in ways that support their intent as well as -- and a point was made and I concur -- that are in keeping with our foreign policy objectives.

MR. HAMZA: Thank you, General. Thank you and on that note, thanks to our distinguished guests, U.S. Army General William E. "Kip" Ward, commander of the U.S. Africa Command, who joined us on the phone from Stuttgart, Germany, and here in the studio, Daniel Volman, the director of the African Security Research Project and Emira Woods, co-director of Foreign Policy in Focus at the Institute for Policy Studies. Thanks to you all.

MS. WOODS: Thank you.

MR. HAMZA: And to our affiliate stations along with our viewers and listeners, we thank you all for tuning you. If you're listening to us on the Voice of America, Special English is coming up next and tomorrow morning it's Daybreak Africa with Howard Lesser and James Butty. On behalf of the Voice of America, thanks for tuning in to "Straight Talk Africa." I'm Mwamoyo Hamza in for Shaka Ssali. Good night.

(Music.)

(END)

Transcript by
Federal News Service
Washington, D.C.
Corrected and released by U.S. Africa Command